An academic and chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Anambra State, is not one to shy away from topical issues that may have direct impact on the wellbeing of the people of the state. In this interview with our Deputy Editor, Nation’s Capital, YOMI ODUNUGA, the philanthropist says the forthcoming governorship election should not be about the mundane argument about zoning, arguing that capable hands should be allowed to mount the saddle of leadership, irrespective of where they come from in the state. He also spoke on other national matters.
By May 29, Nigeria will be celebrating 20 years of uninterrupted. Do you think Nigerians have any reason to celebrate despite what many observe as stunted growth?
I think we have every reason to celebrate. In as much as I may accept that the growth has not been quite impressive, but in so many areas also, there is a lot to celebrate. The fact that we say it is uninterrupted for the last 20 years, that in itself is a major reason for celebration because if it has been uninterrupted for the last 20 years, there is every likelihood that democracy has come to stay. So, I am happy about that. When you look at the democratic processes that we have undergone, going by the last election, there have been a lot of improvements. It may not be in the conduct, but in the laws that are supposed to enable the processes. And since the last election also, there have been some landmark laws that the President has assented to. That means that the future of elections in Nigeria is becoming brighter and very soon, despite all the challenges we have seen in the past, votes might eventually start counting in subsequent elections, at least, to a greater percentage. That in itself, I believe, will trigger the correction of other processes that may have affected our democracy negatively. For instance, the quality of candidates that will contest in the subsequent elections, the processes of bringing up the candidates as it concerns the internal party systems.
I am particularly happy that we have a sitting government in two states of the federation, Zamfara and Rivers, which the electoral process excluded from contesting in the last governorship because of certain infractions on the law. Who would have imagined that that could happen in Nigeria, when we often think that if you are in power, you can get your way in everything? These little things, for me, matter a whole lot in assessing how far we have gone.
I know also that it is taken for granted that parties in power could win certain States. I have also seen, in the last election, where an incumbent governor could not win a senatorial seat. These things are good indications that there is very good hope that the future will continue to be better. The resultant effect is that when people who have been on standby as onlookers have more confidence in the process, you might see even better players coming into the fray. That will increase the quality of participation and then at the same time, will also increase the quality of the output. I believe that in this aspect, it may not have been as fast as we expected, but the fact they are happening at all and have been steady, shows that it is a thing to celebrate within these 20 years.
Economically, I don’t think that we have remained where we were when we started. We all know the capacities of our financial institutions. Today, they are stronger. They can do bigger businesses. Some of them have gone international and are competing big time on the international stage. It is during this period that we produced billionaires in Africa. We have also seen certain sectors grow to become international leaders – the music industry and Nollywood readily come to mind.
The opposition, especially your party the PDP, believe that some of the strides that had been made democratically have also been eroded by the incumbent administration. Do you share that view?
I don’t have all the statistics to situate them within the time frame, but I looked at democracy holistically in the last 20 years. So, it’s a combination of what we have seen in the last four years and then the 16 years of PDP. But there is no doubt that there was less tension during the PDP days, especially during the Jonathan/Yar’Adua period, but, by and large, these things are all tenets of democracy. Obviously, the PDP stayed for 16 years and they played a big role in the good things we are enjoying today. APC has been there for four years. We are still watching to see what it would become at the end of it. With the new government coming in, who knows what will happen.
Part of the complaints in some quarters, in the last four years, is about the tilt towards the strong man leader rather than allowing the institutions to drive the process of development. Which would you subscribe to?
I look at two countries which I have been studying their developmental stages, and the leaders in those two countries – Singapore and Russia, and if I were to use these two countries as example, I will tell you with all sense of honesty that I will rather go for both the constitution and strong leader. But there must be a balance. I will only choose that where the strong leader has the right vision and honest mission, not for their own selfish interest. If it is out of patriotism and they are ready to work for common good and in the interest of the country, then we need a combination of both in this part of the world where certain things are still at their developmental stages.
Some still argue that if you combine both, you might blur the line between when the leader follows the process as constitutionally laid and when he begins to drive things based on his own mission.
You are right but either of those work in line with the constitution because when you have a strong man, he need not downplay the constitution. He would rather use the constitution to help him to achieve his vision. Let’s say for instance, the Russian President is not in power today because he wanted to stay longer and then set aside the constitution. He worked within the framework of the constitution and was able to step down to become the Prime Minister and contested again to become president because there is a constitution that allowed him to contest again. He’s a strong man with a vision and is able to have his way around all those things according to the constitution.
Obasanjo attempted to do third term. If the National Assembly had amended the constitution to allow for that, I don’t think anybody will accuse him of not working with the constitution. How do you work round that and at the same time deliver development to the people because meaning well is different from doing well?
I don’t support it when you manipulate the constitution for personal purposes. If it is for the purpose of having extraordinary constitutional powers to enable you hasten the development process, engage in things that ordinarily will take a longer time for a shorter time, why not? It was only recently we heard in the United States of America that the President could use executive powers to correct some situations. Every country that wants to have a strong President who will push through his visions must have those allowances. The problem will be if you are unlucky to have a President who just wants those powers to actualize his own selfish personal agenda and also deal with his perceived opponents. That’s when it’s very dangerous. It is at such points that the general population rises to show that power actually belongs to the people, like we had recently in Sudan and Algeria.
Looking at Nigeria in the last 20 years, many believe that governors have not done what they should do and that is why today there are only four or five states that can stand on their own. What do you make of that?
It is really a very sad story talking about some governors. Their qualities and their performance have been very disappointing. I believe in a developmental process that is from bottom up. When I say bottom up, in this our constitutional system, I am talking about local governments and state governments, before you get to the federal. Today, there are certain realities in some states and we blame the federal government. There are certain situations that could be managed by the local government but we are sending SOS to the President and even blaming him. When you see such, you wonder why you have local authorities, local governments and state governments. The reason is simply about the quality of governors we have produced in some states within these 20 years. When governors are looking for deputies, they go for the very weak who cannot raise his head to give you any form of trouble or question your actions, when indeed it should be the opposite. You are supposed to select a very competent person who should understudy you, so that in your absence, he or she would continue with the vision you all share. That is why you have the situation where the deputy hardly succeeds the governor. This reality has not been particularly helpful in deepening democracy and managing situations.
Anambra State seem to be different because it does appear that the APGA leadership has done so well.
It depends on the yardstick with which APGA is measuring its performance. It depends also on what APGA is comparing their self with. If you compare APGA with many low performing states that cannot pay salaries, then you may be right. But when you ask somebody like me if that is an achievement, I will tell you no in capital terms because it is the responsibility that you must execute. Paying salary cannot be an achievement. How does a governor boats that he is doing well because he paid workers’ salaries? If you can’t manage the resources of the state and the people to be able to pay salary, then you don’t even contest in the first place.
When you tell me that APGA has grown the size of the economy in Anambra State and what you point to is equating the economy in their kobo-kobo terms, and that their focus on Okada riders, Keke and motor parks as source of IGR, maybe they could be happy about it. But for somebody like me who knows the huge potentials of the state, I will say no in capital terms.
For me, the extent of your target depends on the objective you set for yourself. If you say at the end of a semester in the university, I must score 90 percent to have an A, if you have a C, you will be weeping, you will be unhappy. But in the same class, there are people who have gone to their pastors and churches to pray for them so that they make a P. Those ones will come back and give testimony and throw a party if they have a pass. While you are unhappy that you did not make an A, they are partying that they even made a P. I think that is what is happening in Anambra state with the APGA government.
Are you not saying this because you are in the PDP? When you look at other PDP states, they too are celebrating tokenism as a form of success.
It is not about being a PDP state or being an APGA state. Any governor who has not been able in this present time, era and age, to take his state to the highest level, the higher altitude in line with the global yardstick of measurement, has nothing to celebrate, regardless of which political party he belongs. I say this as somebody who knows what is happening in Anambra state, who knows what governance should be, not what it is in our own context. I have seen things happen in other parts of the world. I have seen transformation orchestrated by some individuals as a result of change in leadership. I am saying this as somebody who is exposed and an economist who understands economic indices and as a political scientist who understands political dynamics. I’m saying these things as a professional who knows what is happening around the world, who has a good grasp of worldview. So, my yardstick is looking at the world around me.
Would you say the challenges relate to the process of the emergence of people who are chosen as leaders using some yardsticks as loyalty and god-fatherism?
To a large extent, I will say yes; from the point of view that competence, credibility has been brought entirely to the least of criteria for choosing leaders. However, to my mind, that is the only surest way for our future. The led, also to a large extent, have to share in the blame because they have proven to accept whatever goes, especially when their minutest interest is protected in the process. If by any mistake somebody has gone in there by default but the person is not competent, there are so many ways allowed by the constitution to exercise some pressure on the person to improve or even show him the way out. But we seem to have resigned to fate.
I know that in some states like Anambra, due to our demography, the led are the weakest percentage of the population. They may not be able to gather themselves together and there may even be those who don’t even have expectations. Some of them only wait until the elections to queue and follow the politicians and grab what they can grab to vote. The exposed people, those who should know better, are in their different comfort zones outside the state and doing very well and may not care what happens. I think such a thing can also be seen in some other states. But it should be getting better soon. I hope, with these electoral processes that are now evolving and the new laws, things would change for the better.
The dominant issue in Anambra state now is about zoning. Do you feel amused by that and what do you make of it?
Indeed, I do feel amused by that because it is only selfish politicians in Anambra State that will be canvassing for zoning for the position of governor, especially with the state of fatal paralysis we now have. Don’t get me wrong, zoning for me is okay where it is to create a balance and equity. But, that can be done only in non-consequential positions, not for governor. And by the way, what are you zoning in Anambra State? We should be talking about one state, one people, one development. Anambra is a homogenous state. We speak the same dialect. We have the same faith – Christianity hundred percent. The territorial mass of Anambra State is just like a ranch in Texas. There not much that divides people in that State. We like the same food, we wear the same type of cloth.
But, it’s not only politicians that are canvassing for zoning; the Anglican Bishops are also canvassing for zoning. They want the governorship zoned to Anglicans.
